INT: Do you have a favorite film?
SL: I do, but I never talk about them as favorites because it makes orphans of the others. [INT: Well what about the other side? Do you have a worst film?] There are a lot of those, but I won't mention it because nobody forced you to do the movie. You said yes, if it doesn’t work out you take your lumps and then go home. One of the things I hate is when novelists sell their book to a movie and then put down the movie. Nobody made you sell your book. Or, if you want to bitch about it give back your money and then say what you want to. I'm a grown-up. If it turns out badly it's my fault, can't take praise without the rap.

INT: What about a film that surprised you?
SL: That happens a lot. I don't look at my work. I don't think I've seen most of my movies in 20 years. My daughter in law bought me a collection of my tapes as a birthday present, I didn't even have them. I did a picture called THE HILL with SEAN CONNERY. A very strong, solid movie. I saw it after it had been colorized, it was marvelous. The whole movie was better than I remembered it. It was strong and mean. A first-rate movie. I thought it was good when I did it. Now looking at it again, I thought it was first rate. That was an accident. I can't answer your question fully because I don’t look at the movies.

INT: You have some sense of where movie is going, then you lose control with audience and marketing. Has that ever surprised you? A movie you thought would go this far went so much further.
SL: All the time, I don't like to bitch about distributions. Distributors in this country are nothing, they get a lot of money for doing very little work. By the time a theater opens in New York or LA, there's not a single movie that knows whether or not they want a movie. At least in the '20s there was a reason for distribution. In the '20s and '30s you had sales people scattered through US taking care of the districts negotiating terms with theater owners. None of that exists anymore. I find most movie advertising is terrible, rarely original, or even visually good. The greatest source of problem on the distribution end in advertising is fear. The original ad for NETWORK was one of the best ads I've ever seen. Manhattan skyline with TV cameras with PETER FINCH on a cross. The copy said "The greatest story ever sold." Great ad. ARTHUR KRIM put up money. By the time picture came out all that was left was the lightning bolt. Literally. Just the lightning bolt.

INT: CLINT EASTWOOD talked about MYSTIC RIVER, he had gone to the head of the studio who said "we don't do dramas." That's not even a genre that's considered commercial anymore.
SL: He is right, it wasn't an expensive movie, but CLINT is a very noble fellow. He took little up front and takes it all in the back end. That picture is not making any money but has great reviews. I'm sure it'll pick up a lot of nominations and that will put it into profit, but it is hard to get money back on pictures over 15 million.

INT: Do you wonder if you were coming up today with all the talent and sensibilities, but how would you express yourself?
SL: Luck is the key. I'm lucky to be in the time it was. I don't think I would have gotten five of my movies through in today's market.

INT: What would you say are the best and worse things about being a director?
SL: It’s a great job, there are no worse things. Anything that involves technical aspects, inspiration, and artistry and is tangible at the end. There is nothing better. I couldn’t think of a bad thing about the job.

INT: Let's talk about the DGA, your thoughts of its importance in your life? Final cut, colorization, what is the role?
SL: I think the membership has gotten too broad, there are a lot of jobs, but I understand the reason for it because we got to have some power. If it was only directors and ADs, we would be knocked out because even the dog wants to direct. We're too easily replaceable. There is value in having a more technical group as members, which are not quite as easy to replace, but basically I think it has to exist for well being of members. Cutting rights won't ever get past what exists now. There are layers in conglomeration that are so enormous now we are not the directors anymore. Talent is replaceable. The thing that happened between 1949 to 1953, the first burst of television, and then all of a sudden talented directors are getting work. Me, ARTHUR PENN, JOHN FRANKENHEIMER, BOBBY MULLIGAN, FRANK SCHAEFFNER, the list is endless. That same amount of talent exists today, it just has no place to work. A lot of directors are starting to come from television. I think the welfare and pension is critical, that is where the DGA exists for the physical benefit of its members. I don't know if it will ever be of help on the creative end, not that it should stop trying.

INT: Your decision for final cut suggests that there were projects that were changed. What led you to feel final cut was more important than money?
SL: The cut being changed had happened a number of times, but I'm not a Pollyanna, that didn't surprise me. One incident happened and it made me so aware. I had done THE PAWNBROKER, it was ELI LANDAU's first movie. He made money in the trucking business, he looked like a teamster. He had put up his own money. My first check I received was signed by his wife on the household account. He didn't even have a corporation. The picture cost a little over 900,000 dollars, his partner came in for 10%. We finished the picture, and ELI couldn't get a seal because there was a scene in there where a girl bared her breasts. In those days, when you couldn't get a seal, that meant no distribution. He stayed firm. I go off to England to do another movie, come back, look at it, and one tiny thing had been changed. Shot A and B became shot B and A. I said, "Why did you change?" I'm not even asking to put it back. His face went red, and anger welled up. He said "You son of a bitch, you never even asked me to have dinner." I knew I could not conduct life being open to that kind of personal idiosyncrasy and madness. That was crazy. I devote my whole adult life to this kind of thinking? If it's about money okay, but for the rest of it? I have to have final cut. ELI was a man I loved and respected him but it wasn't even important.

INT: STANLEY KUBRICK struggled over SPARTACUS, did you ever have a time where you said get me off this project?
SL: With MERRICK, I clearly had problems with him, but that is the only time. After you work for awhile you learn who the lunatics are, both actors and studio heads. If you can, you avoid it.

INT: Is there any project or actor you had percolating in your mind that was never brought to screen?
SL: So many. I had optioned - and I rarely ever option directly - I had optioned THE LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST from KAZANSAKIS. I had the rights for about three years, I had a screenplay, but never got the financing. It was a good thing because you know what happened in terms of the anti-Semitic outburst. LEW ROSSMAN from UNIVERSAL had Christian right lunatics picketing outside his home. Can you imagine if a Jew had done the movie? There would have been pogroms all over America. [INT: Maybe you should do it, maybe MEL GIBSON's THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST demands it?] Maybe. I'm interested, I want to see it. [INT: I am also. The book CONSTANTINE'S SWORD which is the history of the Christian church and the Jewish people. I ate with the author and he said it's not MEL GIBSON, just read the new testament, however he interprets it their is this rivalry with the older brother.] Well FREUD's last book was MOSES AND MONOTHEISM, it was full of ideas and conjectures, but it was basically a psychological investigation of antisemitism. He concluded that religion was insoluble because it is the son revolting against father. The personal Oedipal psychological structure took on character. [INT: I'm doing a film on protocols, I'm revisiting that.]

INT: Wish we had more time, it's been an honor.
SL: You were wonderful. [INT: I'm one of those people that were inspired by your work. We didn't get as into the New York edge and that you've always stayed here, but it's been a privilege.]